Tune feedback again

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    • #41898
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      Hello Genies!! I would like to hear your thoughts about this tune I’ve nearly finished, as last time I did this it was so helpful 🙂 Thanks!!!

    • #42001
      ,shrike
      Participant

      Nice vibe, clean sounds w/clean vox. I really like bg, understated twisty midbass sound.

      If it were me I would smooth out that lead bell sound just a bit- it seems to be a smidge too high in vol relative to the other elements that are sitting below it. I get it that it is the hero element, I’m talking about gel’ing it just a slight bit more.

      Also, if it were me, I might lay one more long ambient sound under the intro. Very small, very low, just something to help tie all of the intro sounds together. Like a foley or something. A texture sound meant to be ‘felt’ more than heard.

      I would also get a little more second octave bass in there. Your low low bass is coming through, but the 70-120hz area feels a little empty.

      Nice work!

      _-| get to work |-_

      • #42204
        ,Mind Zero
        Participant

        Thank you bro, such a complete review! I’ll check everything you said.

    • #49528
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      Hey guys, did some changes in this one and I’ve been struggling for a couple days to get the mix done, so at this point I would like to hear your thoughts again

    • #49547
      ,shrike
      Participant

      So I am A/B’ing to make sure I give you somewhat correct info…certainly not required, but in the future if you make the tunes dl’able I can pull them into the DAW and put them under the microscope.

      But bear with me, I am not trying to send you on a boondoggle (can’t think of a euro equivalent of “boondoggle”…yank slang).

      I think the lead bell sound is sitting in there a little more nicely, it’s not trying to overpower everything. I think you gave the lead vox the same treatment maybe? Taking it down also? I think the vox could afford to be skosh’ed back up in gain (skosh=technical term). Same with that warpy, staggered mid bass sound, I think it could get a little more power back. Before it popped up more in the fg as a nice surprise, and now it feels relegated to a bg sound only.

      I’d love it if someone else weighed in here, too. I would hate for you to overwork things based on my single viewpoint. Overall I think things blend a little better, but that we’ve maybe lost a little ‘oomph’ and forwardness in some places, which honestly might be fixed with some crafty masterchain tweaks.

      Help us out, Genie’s, what say you…? I hope this helps you, MindZ, apologies for the zigging and zagging.

      _-| get to work |-_

    • #49559
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      Yes, the mid-bass is a bit in the background but when I try to put it in the front I start to hear some disgusting distortion and the tune starts to get really dirty.
      Also struggling with the snare, as it sounds loud and it’s peaking the limiter, but when I reference to other track it seems to be very low.
      The track I’m using as a reference is Halogenix – Bitter.

    • #49562
      ,shrike
      Participant

      I would really like to see if I can help with that. What I am discovering lately is that it’s so much less about actual levels (although that does matter) and much more about what it’s being placed against, relatively speaking.

      The simple idea being that if the snare doesn’t sound bright enough, you don’t actually brighten the snare itself, but look for competing sounds and take some sheen off of them.

      I don’t expect that will be a new concept for you, but I know that for me it’s a little harder to wrap my head around sometimes.

      If you make your tune dl-able, I will pull it into the DAW and play around with it, maybe I can get you some new insight to try…?

      _-| get to work |-_

    • #49571
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      Yeah I know that, but when I say the snare is peaking the limiter I mean when I solo the snare, so I don’t know…
      The track is downloadable now, thank you bro!!!

    • #49580
      ,Forgot their name
      Participant

      If your snare is peaking the limiter, then clip it before it goes into the limiter using K-clip, that’s the dirty way of doing it. You’ll save a gain a few db headroom without compromising the character/transient.

      I don’t stick by the “new” rules of production, and I don’t chuck all the old rules out the window like rage settings on limiters. I swear this does come back to haunt producers for example Iccicle getting asked to take off the limiters on his busses before sending for mastering.

      Personally the best tip I’ve ever had is set the kick at -10db and mix everything around that, mix flat and don’t mix into a limiter.

      If you want loudness it’s all about the crest factor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk4D4bMu8uo

      Use limiters not for loudness, but for controlling peaks before you do the final loudness stage. Up the average RMS loudness with compression and saturation and bam you have a much more pro sounding mix.

      The other greatest tip that’s helped me to no end recently is

      • #49582
        ,shrike
        Participant

        “The other greatest tip that’s helped me to no end recently is”…

        Well!?!?! What is this other greatest tip…?

        _-| get to work |-_

      • #49607
        ,bennett
        Participant

        Forgot their name,

        That’s all well and good however a lot of people who produce that aggressive loud produce with limiters on the master, Emperor, Mefjus, Noisia etc.

        It’s fine to do as long as you’re aware of the shortcomings of it also.

    • #49581
      ,Forgot their name
      Participant

      Really nice tune overall, I dig the liquid/laid back feel, and the ambiences/melodics are really fitting, and the bass is groovy. It’s a decent mix. Only little tiny things I’d point out.

      The high hat has this 4k hiss in the intro that isn’t too pleasing. When it drops I don’t hear the same hissyness, so makes me think it’s the limiter/master chain adding volume in a place that doesn’t need that much.

      Your snare may not need more volume, sounds fine, but it may need a better seating in space. A tiny little plate verb could help there, sounds a tad dry for me.

    • #49583
      ,Forgot their name
      Participant

      “The other greatest tip that’s helped me to no end recently is”…

      Well!?!?! What is this other greatest tip…?

      I knew that would mess with at least one person 😛

      I can’t leave you suffering! TDR Nova, free plugin, it’s a dynamic EQ, set threshold settings to only pull a certain frequency out of the mix once it’s over a certain point. EQ without ruining the rest of the sound.

      God send is an understatement.

      • #49588
        ,Mind Zero
        Participant

        I will check that plugin, I’ve been using TDR Kotelnikov a lot recently, really nice compressor

      • #49589
        ,Mind Zero
        Participant

        But you can do that with Fabfilter Pro-MB I think

      • #49590
        ,shrike
        Participant

        I have been looking for a good dynamic eq, the only other one I have found is like $300.

        Nice 1

        _-| get to work |-_

    • #49587
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      I use the limiter just to have a visual idea of the peaks, but I reference everything around the kick and when I say the snare is peaking I mean that the reduction is way too much, but it doesn’t sound that loud, and I’m checking that solo’ing (can I say that?) the snare.
      Thank you for taking the time to comment guys, highly appreciated it helps me a lot to hear from different people.

      • #49591
        ,Forgot their name
        Participant

        ahh fair enough. Still can’t recommend watching that guy’s channel MixBusTV, it’s all in protools, and he works mostly with metal and real band recordings, but all of the same stuff translates nicely into dnb/dance production.

        Basically K-clip to tame high peaks without loosing the punch of transient, you can reduce the height of the transient in db terms, whilst retain the punch and clarity. So the end result will be your snare is not being attenuated to the extent you’re seeing now.

        in a sense all K-Clip is doing is being a limiter with no-lookahead so you can emulate these behaviours in proL if that’s what you have, check out the presets under clippping.

        It sounds wrong, “yeah mate clip you’re signal it will sound great”, well no it won’t, but it will tame your signal at a cost. The cost is mushing the transients slightly, but if you can find the sweet spot between gain reduction and perceived loudness, ie you get the same desired punch at a greatly attenuated factor, then the final limiter in the mastering chain doesn’t have to do so much work, or counter is able to do that much more for the final loudness.

        You’re totally right to be tracking down these peaks and knowing how to tame them. You could also use saturation on a drum bus to increase perceived loudness, URS Saturation is 100% mofoing killer, outstanding what it will do to snare drums alone. Increase the perceived loudness with saturation, and bring down the fader to increase the crest factor.

        Damn it, someone should be paying me for these nuggets 😛

    • #49595
      ,shrike
      Participant

      Ok! I think I can do some good here.

      A few things I discovered when putting it in the DAW:

      1) You’ve got some stereo signal below 100hz. It’s very low, but I feel like it’s best to just straight mono below ~100hz or so

      2) Your peak values are coming in at around -10dbfs. Opinions about loudness wars notwithstanding, I would think you’d want that lowest note licking 0dbfs, for maxxxxx power.

      3) You’ve got a competing fifth right next to your first (lowest) fundamental, and it’s sucking out some energy. Your low F has a ~C-tuned hump right next to it, and it’s dividing how much the woofer can move, and you’re losing some lowend potential because of this conflict. I pulled your tune in and just did some analyzing and eq-ing to see what can be done, and while there are still some issues that I can’t get at without stems, even just some eq-ing and dynamics helps the overall loudness. The image shows the master plugin chain.

      4) I did a notch of the low C (~65hz), and then tried to push the second F (~87hz) back up a little. You can see the before and after of the spectrum analyzers, and in the lower right it now has more of the slope that you are probably looking for.

      5) I basically just split below 150hz, and then charged up that sub bass a bit (bx_subfilter…free and treats subbass like nothing else I have encountered), then the sculpting eq mentioned above, and then some dynamics after that

      6) The MB at the end helps tighten up some ranges. I didn’t whittle on it too much, just chose a preset that generally tends to tighten most things. It does help to make the snare pop a little more. I would certainly go in and dial it further to get exactly what you want

      7) I tried a FF L2 at the very end, and everything I tried just sounded like shit, so then I tried an Ozone maximizer, which worked out a little better.

      8) All of this reveals something flabby/distorted in the ~500hz range, if you solo that range you can hear it…I think it’s being brought on by another sound, maybe the bell, but you just want to dig in and root that fucker out, whatever it is.

      I don’t think it’s perfect yet, but I do think it’s starting to firm up a little.

      quick loop of what I did:

      plugin setup:

      MindZero Help

      I hope this helps!

      _-| get to work |-_

      • #49611
        ,Mind Zero
        Participant

        Wowwww, didn’t expect such a complete review, you’re a legend!! It’s strange that I have some stereo in the bass as I always use a stereo low cut in the master just to make sure that everything below 200-300 Hz it’s mono (learnt that from the Halogenix – Blej walkthrough).
        You did a good work with that master, sounds loud and punchy but as a consequence I can hear lots of distortion in the bass, that’s because something is wrong in the mix and I want to fix it from there.
        Also, sometimes is all about having the right sounds and the right arrangement, for me this track is quite hard to mix as the bass and the kick are fighting all over the track.

    • #49612
      ,Mind Zero
      Participant

      This is an example of a track I’m working on, didn’t take time to mix but the arrangement makes it easy to sound loud.

    • #49618
      ,Target Audience
      Participant

      This “Criminal” track is pretty nice (good mixdown and has a cool vibe overall). Would like to hear the finished version 🙂

      The Rose thron one didn’t really click with me because I found the bassline to be a bit too repetitive. Maybe could use some filter automation to bring that bassline more alive?

    • #49626
      ,Forgot their name
      Participant

      Forgot their name,

      That’s all well and good however a lot of people who produce that aggressive loud produce with limiters on the master, Emperor, Mefjus, Noisia etc.

      It’s fine to do as long as you’re aware of the shortcomings of it also.

      Well said “Aware of the shortcomings” – fun fact also title of my sex tape. I find for the more melodic stuff, of which I’m bias towards I tend to find people aren’t as responsive towards completely flat dynamics. I’ve stopped arguing over what is the “right” way, there’s not a right way, just what works for you. When there’s only drum/bass/fx in a mix I guess it matters less, and when you’re trying to emulate another artist’s sound who use this process then it seems valid.

      If you are going to mix into a limiter on the master bus, I’d still argue it’s not worth putting any gain amplification on it, just use it to catch peaks.

      The thing about mixing and balancing, it’s all relative, I mention the trick of leaving your kick at one volume and mixing everything else around one thing that doesn’t change level. Keep one thing static and mix everything in relation to that. Having a normalised -1db kick and setting the channel strip to -10db, is one way of achieving continuity in creating tracks.

      It’s a good way to make tracks on an ep/lp all sound relative to each other. I guess the starting value could change, I’ve seen one of the guys from Noisia try and make a kick hit -6db, with quite a bit of fiddling.

      Each to their own, I still wouldn’t be able to add 3 busess all peaking and constantly 0db from a limiter, and then add them together into another limiter at 0db, don’t make sense in my head. But now all I’m wondering is what happens when you brick wall a bricked wall, is that how you make bass house?

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