Sketches, WIPs, etc

What do you mean by “urgency”?

The second one, the kick and snare sit better with the bass than the other versions.
Edit: I think a compromise between the 2nd and 3rd one would hit the spot. Track is sounding good by the way.

3rd and 4th absolutely bangin’. Love it!

Thanks guys, you just made it even harder to pick the right one… 😀

Appreciate the votes 😉

Appreciate your comment and you taking time for some detailed feedback. Because I produce solo it is hard sometimes to get honest feedback. I just got back into making music (just for fun) but really would like to step my game up. I understand what should go into making a good tune but sometimes that’s easier said then done.

Any feedback/pointers you have would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v3j95ayazl7vrs2/AAC9c6szWdzyK40DSXWDN79Ga?dl=0

Thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback. I will for sure be taking these tips on board. If you could give me the live file that would be great!

Wow! really impressive re-work. I actually really really dig the original anyway, but the mixed version really brings it to full bloom. Great work both of you!

I found that Stranger Things-like theme interesting… got curious once stems and project files started flying around.

I had to clean up the project done by Shrike, because it was triggering the OCD I probably have… and since I was already messing with it, I did some quick edits as well 😀

Here’s the Ableton (10 Suite) project: https://cp.sync.com/dl/3516fc4d0#yiusdmvq-bu2ajy8k-ujwgpkbw-g3g78tfd

Note: I removed the 3rd party plugins which I didn’t have – L2, R, Valhalla and SPAN Plus. Used the stock reverbs and limiter instead.

https://soundcloud.com/balron/rollback-peerhelp-balron/s-aodhh

Because I am dumb 🙂
Bass should definitely go to SC’d. Maybe even the mids.. although there’s just that one layer right now, so it might not be necessary (yet).

Maybe it is getting a bit ‘abstract’. To me, it feels almost like a long intro/buildup. It’s like in the middle between a dancefloor roller track and an experimental halftime. Both could work.

I would also try to get rid of the distortion (the cracking is most prominent at snare during the ‘drop’ part). Not sure what the source is, as the kick in the first half sounds somewhat clean. Also, the extra airy noise is… I don’t know. It makes part of the sound extremely alive, but it somehow doesn’t fit. I got no idea what would I change about it. 🙂

I agree with Shrike tighten up the mixdown, and add some sfx/background interest. I enjoyed to what have you so far, I think you could have a nice tune if you persevere. Not much to say other than keep at it Defender!

Thank you both for the comments & advice, really appreciate it!
Since posting I’ve got it to point I’m happy in terms of arrangement. So next up the mixdown!
Do you have any specific critique in terms of levels/occupation of frequency? My ears aren’t so fresh on it after working on arrangement all weekend!
Thanks again 😀

Nice. Hard to judge off soundcloud sometimes but I think if you can let the sub through a bit more, would add to the groove. And maybe tightening up 150-400hzish area. Looking forward to hearing the final version.

https://soundcloud.com/defenderdnb/jurassic-wip2 this one should be downloadable, cheers Shrike 😀

Nice week off 🙂
The snare sounds better (not so harsh anymore), but it’s almost getting dull now. I think it’s gonna be somewhere in the middle between these two versions (003, 004). However, I tried to compare with some tracks, and surprisingly, the original harsh snare is quite close to what I hear in Mindscape – Meltdown. The new track version also misses a bass that was there before (I would put it back).

I am not sure how to ‘fix’ the snare.. maybe it’s being limited too much? Anyway, I recorded a comparison of some clips, which made me even more confused. Maybe the only issue with “harshness” of the snare was the tune context. In Meltdown, it doesn’t feel bad, because also rest of the stuff is quite loud/punchy.

Give it a try (.7z archive with video inside): https://cp.sync.com/dl/814b39030#3xpkvkjn-tvfby7i7-ut74byai-xi75kk7e
Archive password: sg

(let me know once you get it if you want me to delete it soon)

I like the snare in the second clip (Neutron strings), works way better. Especially with the hats/perc. It makes a nice groove.
Here I think the mid neuro basses are louder and cover the rest of the sounds. Especially kick. They are also starting to be muddy. I don’t know how (eq I guess), but I would try to clean the mud and make the “voices” more prominent… probably by some eq tweaks in the mids and boost of air/presence by few db of a high shelf (e.g. 5kHz+).

It could be also a nice tun once polished 😉 Good work

Thanks for the detailed feedback Shrike and glad you enjoyed it. Good to have some fresh ears, I was beginning to get blinders on this tune. I’ll be sure to implement the changes you said, you’ve given me some clear goals I can follow through on. Feel free to cop the technique haha and seriously thanks for the honest feedback!

I like what you have so far, I would cut that synth sooner @ :21 – :22 so you have just the fill and the vox. The groove makes sense for the drop. You might want to replace the kick with one that is more defined, or layer it. In terms of mixing start with getting the kick and sub levels right along with the rest of the drums and mix around that. I would say develop it more would be my main feedback and post it here when you do.

thanks freeman i will

Basses sound good imo 🙂 The snare is too loud and hats as well. They are so crispy/loud that they actually cover the mids. Try to tame those a bit to reveal bottom and mids more.

Hey, nice work!
I like the bottom end. It’s clean and smooth. Mids sound good too.
The only thing I can think of right now is the snare. It feels somewhat soft. Maybe a more defined transient and a bit shorter noise layer would make it better. This kind of tune could actually use a completely different snare – something more synthetic maybe? Just a click with a body.

Thanks Shrike, thats the best/most useful feedback I’ve ever had! Will definitely work on those aspects and keep checking back to see if i can offer any helpful feedback for others as well!

Hey,

oh… the intro… that reminds me some death metal intros. Actually, you just made me remember one of the bands I used to listen a lot: Gorerotted. Thanks 😀

The scary/creepy buildup is great. That initial bass hit fits well. Overall mixdown is what turns it down, but that’s the fight we all are fighting so don’t worry – it’s tough to get right. At this point, I think you need to check some tutorials/masterclasses about mixdown, to up this. You already got great atmosphere and ideas.

There’s one badly placed hihat though: The one that starts at 1:12 and plays each 1/4? Just a simple hat hit.. it doesn’t fit into the dark/creepy theme. Get rid of it, or try a different percussion (maybe with a bit of reverb).

things to look into:
– saturation (start by saturating kicks/snares and basses)
– sidechaining (let the kick punch through basses)
– loudness (without distortion)… both saturation and sidechaining helps here. Don’t get fooled into “you need compression” mentalities. Most samples are already compressed anyway and unless you know what you are doing you will actually cause more harm than good (imo).

That’s basically it. If you get a good grasp of these, you are almost there 🙂

Important: Do not fall into the “study hole”… I am there right now 😀 The mixdown is very complex topic (imo) and you can spend months on it. I would recommend creating the stuff as you do when you feel the vibe. And only study mixing when you feel uncreative/uninspired.

I did press that follow button.. waiting for more from you.
Keep it up and good luck!

Hey Shrike,

Thanks for extensive feedback, much appreciated!

As for the widening automation – this trick I use always before drop on the master bus – it makes the drop hit more. Never thought about using it more in in the track, so thanks 🙂 But thats narrowing and then re-widening back to normal of already existing stereo information. How you recommend to add it? Just boosting side on eq, adding very short delay or both?

Nazdar 🙂

Shrike already gave you a long feedback, so I will just post some notes (probably gonna be overlapping with him)

Rubber duck
– I like the overall vibe. This can be solid track once polished.
– Buildup (intro-drop transition) is weak. Could use longer buildup of energy/expectation.
– Drums in drop are punching through well and the drum fills with toms/snares are cool (you could probably make them bit louder).
– Needs more variation. I would like to hear more neuro hits along the way (e.g. 2:02)
– Overall, the sound is a bit ’empty’. I think adding saturation to your grups (drums,bass) might help. Also something like 10% wet OTT at master/mixbus could fill the space as well.

Traninwreck
– Now that’s a great buildup 🙂
– The sound overall is unfortunately somewhat lo-fi. Sounds like a tune from a few/several years ago. However, I don’t think it’s necessary to change it (unless you want to release this at a label). It can keep this ‘oldschool feel’. If you would want to change it, you would probably need to tweak/remix most of the channels and possibly even switch some samples. I personally would stay with the lofi/oldschool version and move on 🙂
– I don’t like the arrangement progression. The first phrase of a drop is great. It has a good groove. Then in the second one you basically kill it and everything slows down. The last one is also slower and only ramps up back to the initial groove in the second half just before the break at 3:00. This wouldn’t work well for me during mixing or even dancing. Subjective: I would prefer having first two phrases with the initial fast groove and then slow down during the third/last phrase, where I would be either mixing in another track or I would just let play this one and let the breakdown hit.

note:. I do not know the correct naming. When I say “breakdown” I am talking about those calm phrases between drops 🙂

hope this is helpful,
feel free to pm me at soundcloud/facebook if you want to talk in cz/sk sometimes 🙂

Like the tune. I am having a hard time recommending something. I think the snare sounds somewhat clipped sometimes but I wouldn’t say you have to do anything about it. I honestly don’t know what this style is (maybe something like oldschool jumpup?) but I heard more similar tunes and I would say your overall sound/mixdown is on point with the others.

I agree with Shrike on variation (add a bit more) and birds – they could be dimmed a bit.

btw: VIBE ASSASINS… how many ppl are behind this? 🙂

Hey,

that’s a proper fat tune. Nice work.
The overall atmosphere works well.

what would I try to improve:
– drums: The drums sound good in the intro, but in the 3rd phrase (starting 1:06) they get a little bit lost (not much). I think the kick could punch thru a bit more. Snare as well. Tops sound fine.
– intro/buildup: the third phrase (0:44 – 1:06) has almost all the sounds from the drop so it makes the drop almost non-existent. I guess it was an intention to make a roller style and it works. It’s just my personal preference… I think I you would make the buildup build the atmosphere/expectation more and then add a bit of fade/silence at the end of it (just before the drop), it would hit way harder (I like these pre-drop moments at the dancefloor).

No. DnB doesn’t fit into a horror movie 😀
However, that second part of your intro would. Nice work 😉

My notes:
– The initial drop kick has no punch. You need to fix this. The initial kick has to shake your liver a bit.
– the screams are really nice
– the neuro bass hits are ok, but miss the top presence that scream fx has. I would try to saturate/distort/layer the tops of your mid bass
– the snare blends well with tops (maybe even a bit too much). It definitely feels longer than needed. I would try shortening it a bit (it usually works..)

cheers guys, will have you hear the final product once I manage to finish it

Thanks a lot for the feedback mate, much appreciated! 🙂

hey, nice tune. Not my style, but I would consider it a good liquid 😉

Some notes on top what Shrike said:
– the kick could somehow fit better. Granted I don’t know typical liquid kick right now, but I would enjoy this one more if it would be punchier (stronger sidechain/eqing) and a bit lower (in key). If it’s G, try to move it down to F (maybe it won’t work.. dunno).
– I don’t like the long release of sidechain at the background atmo pad. It has this slow pumping effect. I don’t like pumping in these atmospheric tunes. If you are sidechaining it there to make a space for drums make the release shorter.
– Drums are the same all the time. I would try to mute at least the hats/shaker layer in the last phrase of a drop. As kind of transition between drop and breakdown + maybe a space for a track that a DJ might start mixing in?

Cheers for checking it out man, really appreciate it! 🙂 Yeah one or two other people I’ve played this to suggested maybe changing the sidechain, especially in the intro

Absolutely 🙂

All the feedback I give is based on my personal taste. Author of given piece is free to ignore everything I suggest, but I am going to write it anyway. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be much to offer from my side.

First thing that surprised me was that all the elements come out quite well, so good job with the mixdown part so far.Your bass is loud and moving so that’s also well done, mate. Only thing is the sound of the snare which isn’t really my cup of tea how it sounds (could try to pitch up 1 or 2 semitones, that might give more energy to it?) and some ghost snare hits or other type of top & perc could bring some spice to overall drum groove as well. Good job nevertheless 🙂

Listening to this at speakers now.

– Kick is a bit softer than it was in headphones. Still working fine tho.
– Snare is good 🙂 Maybe it could have a tiny bit more hiss/air/presence? (but maybe it’s because I turned down my tweeters)
– I don’t like that one hat pattern coming from left side. It’s off the grid.. maybe it’s triplet? I cannot tell, but it sounds like the drummer guy missed the rhythm 🙂
– The 16th hats on the right, on the other hand, are on the grid but somewhat ‘dry’ or boring/simple for this specific tune. I guess I would like to hear something more processed and with more white noise.

Don’t know what frequency exactly… right now it sounds like just a sub + a tiny pop/click in the tops. It’s quite lost during the first drop phrase. Works better during second but it still could cut through more. In this case I would say you could cut more from the sub bass sidechain or pitch the kick up a bit (however, I like it this low so I would try carving the sidechain more and see if it doesn’t ruin the bassline flow too much).

sounds done balron bass is great. sounds like heavy metal!!!

Thanks JUAN 😉

note for others: I’ve released it a few days later and deleted the old version so the link is broken now.

Hey,

welcome 😉

– The rain-like noise in the intro is nice although a bit too loud maybe (tune is hidden behind it… dunno if that’s the intention)
– The vocal sounds distorted before the drop. I personally would prefer to have the vocal pristine and with some reverb fade/rise effect. I can hear the distortion even later in the tune and I don’t like it in the context.
– The high pitch ‘screech’ (or however is it called) is killing my ears and therefore the whole tune (for me personally). I would murder that sound and dig it six feet under the ground (at least) 😀 Instead I would focus on the atmosphere building around the vocal.
– kick and snare is fine (even though a little bit muddy)
– tops/highmids are a bit messy with those breaks and percussions hitting around. Again, just a matter of taste but right now it feels like there are two tunes mixed together (one with the vocal and atmos, second with breaks and some leads). I would pick one or at least make one of them less prominent so it just softly adds up to the overall sound.

Take this just as my subjective opinion… what you like/enjoy is more important 😉

Thanks for the reply mate 🙂

and yeah that screeching sound can grind some gears I guess hahaha
Will probably try to clean up the drums and the overall sound but I guess I’ll let it rest for a couple of weeks

First off, thank you really much for taking time 😀

Yeah im definitely gonna work on the intro! I don’t really get what you mean by “hero” monster sounds can you explain further? :s

I guess he meant the “monster” voice sample you used in the background. I really dig the track, mix it proper and (maybe) let it rest for a couple of days. Helps me at least. Otherwise great track and schöne grüße aus Wien 😀

Sorry for your loss. I like the tune, musically it’s sound, you could vary midrange-y bass horn sound that plays throughout, more noise/sound fx to keep the tune varied, maybe have the shaker come in a bit later like 16 bars later. you could add a new shuffle when it drops again, you could introduce a new melodic line when the break happens @2:34 to incorporate in the 2nd drop, or opt to have the 2nd drop be stripped back, and make it more bass driven, removing the strings, keeping the piano

Really just make it less loop-y feeling.

I do like the rain, and the placement of everything, arrangement is sound.

There you go man, up for download now 🙂

I will add that if you have compositional suggestions i’d love to hear them! I’ll probably double the length of the individual drop halves so they have time to play out, add some more variation throughout.

Thank you for the kind words! I’ve tried more obtuse work before, but my heart keeps pulling me back to the 1-2-step. I’ll be sure to give what you suggested a shot when I’m off work.

Yeh boiiii, nice one, I really dig it!

Big up guys! Glad you’re liking it. ?

baaaadboi tune mate, really nice one 😀

Nah I think all your points are valid. Still super early days for this tune as I only started it this morning. The kick isn’t interfering with the bass frequency wise as I tuned it but the drums need a lot of cleaning up as it’s several layers with untidy editing, but in this bounce it is pretty muddy. I’ll strip back the drums so there’s less overlap and more definition on the kick and snare, I’ll make them more solid and punchy. Will definitely add more sounds and cues to hint at the phrasing as well. Time for a break for now though but next time I crack open the project I’ll definitely keep what you’ve said in mind. cheers.

tweaked it for another little while and came up with this:

better? worse? indifferent? whole new set of problems?

there’s still not enough sounds to indicate the phrase which is up next

https://soundcloud.com/struktcha/whiskey-tango-foxtrot-04

Hey Ash im digging the vibe did you complete the track or is it just a clip? Sounds well balanced just think you can use some midbass edits every now and then to evolve the track a bit more

Hey Juan, yeah i pretty much classed it as finished, however i’m up for improving it once i see what kinda things everyone is saying about it 🙂 the full thing is in the dropbox link under the soundcloud link but the second drop doesn’t have anything new it’s just the same. (i’ll probably do some changes when i open it back up)