shrike
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shrikeParticipantSure thing.
I think a good tape helps things out, and I use various ones on my busses. I generally run 5 busses: primary drums (kick & snare), bass, atmos, tops, & FX. On each of these I’m running either Studer A800, Oxide, softtube’s Tape (not UAD). I also like to do the resonance trick with the UAD Pultec EQP-1A. If you’re not familiar with this, it goes something like this: https://imgur.com/a/GkwI6Bc. It can really help fill out the low end. I will also sometimes use that in the master chain, just a touch, to fill out the entire mix. It’s the legacy version, but it does what I need. I don’t do any LA2A or 1176’s anymore, I’ve just kind of moved past them these days.
And that is true, innit, Plugin Alliance/bx has a lot of stuff in UAD. I LOVE these plugs, but I use the CPU versions. And I use loads of them…you could pick them up for UAD. SPL Vitalizer is great, yup, can really help glue when used on master buss. I also use BX Masterdesk on my master sometimes. I use bx dynEQv2 for my sidechaining. I use bx_console SSL 4000 E on almost *everything* literally. I’ve owned/own many incarnations of the SSL console, and I honestly think Brainworx’s version is the best. Waves SSL is absolute dogshit, UAD has one that isn’t terrible, but bx has nailed it, and I don’t say that as someone who is an expert on what the physical console sounds like, but just that theirs was the first and only one that I actually thought made things sound better…and the TMT feature is super rad, and genuinely provides unique color depending on what seed is used. I’m the kind of fucking nerd that has run these things through PluginDoctor (https://ddmf.eu/plugindoctor/) and taken note of what the various actual curves are and what is being done to the sound. And the “random” feature makes it easy and nice to keep stacking consoles on diff tracks, and each getting a little bit different color & sound profile, like a physical analog desk does. I really like it, and I also have the Neve version, but I seem to just stick to the 4000 E.
I use Dangerous BAX on my master, it’s a nice “sparkle and polish” EQ for which a little bit goes a long way.
SPL Transient Designer + is, IMO, the absolute best transient shaper anywhere, and I have tried and own dozens and dozens, including Waves Smack Attack (not bad, actually), NI’s Transient Designer (decent but kind of limp), XLN’s DS-10, JST Transify, Shaack’s Transient plug, just to name a few. SPL just works best, and does things that the others just don’t seem capable of doing. If you haven’t tried it, load it up on a kick or snare, set the preset to “tight & punchy”, and then smile.
I also use bx_townhouse compressor, esp on my main drums, which is basically an SSL G or Glue Compressor type deal…again, just sounds best to my ears, very nice, subtle, and hard to push into the super shitty zone (unlike almost anything Waves, which break down at about 50%+ extremes…I kind of fucking hate Waves, they make a lot of garbage, and I am still mad that I had to pay ~$800 for the shitty SSL console back in the day).
I use MaagEQ2 for air on some things. Decent but kind of a one trick pony (I got mine free). BX Opto is a really nice sounding compressor, esp for drums. BX stereomaker is my new friend as it makes stereo content from mono, and does so in a way that is rock-solid when summing to mono (zero loss). BX limiter I actually wouldn’t recommend so much, kills my transients, but I will sometimes use it on non-xsient material, esp for the XL saturation knob. BX Subfilter, which is free, is the greatest free plugin anywhere, and can really bolster your bass. I bought the paid “subsynth” version, thinking it must be better, right? But no, I end up just using the free one all the time. H910 Harmonizer is great for vocals. I also really like the Lindell stuff, esp ChannelX, which is going to replace the pultec’s in my template. Blackbox HG-2 is my fave mixbuss saturator, moreso than cascade, bx saturation, iron, or anything else. Just sounds the most musical to my ears.
And that kind of covers it for mixing plugs. I also LOVE the Moog filter & Culture Vulture for sound design stuff, but I wouldn’t call them a necessary purchase, just kind of nice to have.
UAD’s I have bought but don’t ever use cuz they just don’t feel right to me: Distressor, dbx-160 (and actually this is the rare case where I think Waves’ dbx-160 sounds better), and then some things I got with the interface, like the fairchilds, the Precision stuff, the helios stuff, and the Neve preamps…that last one mostly because it hogs all the DSP, and the aforementioned leveling amps & compressors.
But the above stuff, the FF stuff (Q3 on almost all things…L2 as my goto limiter), some soundtoys, some izotope, some valhalla, some Uhbik, native Live stuff, a little bit of Waves, and various other little bits and bobs, and that is kind of my bag of plugin tricks. I own a stupid amount of plugs, have tried most things, and kind of settled on this list through a few years of vetting & testing.
Long post, I know. But you kind of pulled my string, I swear I would have a conversation with a random homeless person if they expressed interest in knowing what I use to make shit. I fucking love it, and could talk about it all day long.
And lastly, the other annoying thing about UAD is the goddamned ~3gb package of ALL their plugs that they MAKE YOU install. I’ve gotten so fed up with it that I have literally gone in and deleted the ones I don’t have lic’s for…I don’t know of any other company that does this, and it’s just abusive to the customer. I’m planning on making my way to a NAMM soon, finding a UAD rep, and asking “what in the actual fuck are you guys thinking by doing that?!?” If the answer comes from a sales point, I will then light them up and let them know how manipulative & annoying it is. So. Dumb. And kind of contributes to the shade I throw on UAD. I know this is a bit petty and dumb, but so is forcing what is effectively BLOATWARE on me.
Hope that helps, at least a little.
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,shrikeParticipantI built out a template that included many UADs, including studer, oxide, pultec, etc. I own an Apollo Twin.
However I am pulling them off of my template, and not going to use them in mixdown again, or anywhere for that matter, as they introduce a ridic amount of latency into Live. Like so much that even with delay compensation on, the playhead is well ahead of the audio being produced. Loading the plugs in Bitwig, come to find out that you will get a default of 26ms of latency introduced *per plug*. So you can see how dozens of UAD plugs would start to introduce an unacceptable amount of latency. I’m not talking about not being able to hear an instrument in real time, that is to be expected, I’m talking about the timing being completely fucked in the DAW.
From the research I have now done, this latency is even more deadly than a CPU-based plug, as the DAW has to communicate to the DSP chips, then the DSP sends back to the DAW, then through the CPU, then out of the interface, and it’s actually worse than just having a straight non-DSP plug. Someone can debate that if they would like, maybe I don’t fully understand it like I think I do (obviously), but I do know that I wish I had bought an RME instead, and that the $$$$ I have invested into UAD hardware & software is just a waste.
I know this isn’t what you were looking for, but you didn’t say whether you are a current owner, or looking to buy, or what…so my current stance is to dissuade peeps from adopting UAD, if they are asking for a rec on the platform.
Sorry for the negative/bad news, this is just how I feel, and it sucks cuz the shit wasn’t cheap.
Plugin Alliance & esp Brainworx plugs. That’s my jam. They make solid gear that just works.
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,shrikeParticipantEvan, I don’t have a question (at the moment, anyways), but I did want to personally say thank you for taking the time to make such a great, multi tiered lesson for us.
You inspired me greatly, and others I’m sure. Thank you sir!
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,shrikeParticipantLol, not a bad moniker, actually…
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,shrikeParticipantok, rolling off bitwig for now…way too fucking buggy. Doesn’t even respect the length of a clip in the arranger, it actually truncates the sound to be shorter than the edit, so I have to hack it by dragging the waveform out longer than it should be. This has happened in several projects thus far. It also won’t respect a trim edit until you release the mouse, which is kind of ridic.
I want to use it, I want to like it, but it’s chock full of bugs, even more than the few I mentioned above. I know it’s only ~v2 software, I get it that it won’t be as stable as Live, but I can’t work this way.
I’ll check out 3 again when it’s released.
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,shrikeParticipantYou know what though, what I just commented on is so subjective. It just depends on what direction you want to take things, and I’m listening to it (still) and it seems like maybe you want to keep some liquid in there. If it were me, I’d distort and beef up/tighten that kick, shorten that snare, reduce the verb a bit, and white top the fuck out of it, but that’s just my singular view on it. I kind of want to punch ppl in the nuts a bit in my stuff, but I thoroughly respect the flow of the liquid side.
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,shrikeParticipantOh HELL YEAH
It’s like 200% better, maybe even more. Those intro bass sounds now have some 8serious8 fucking balls on them. It actually changes the dynamic of the music for me, this new one vs the old. Well done.
If I had a druther, it would be that the super nice intro distorted bass stabs retain the strength that they have in the intro, throughout the tune. It’s probably fine to bury them in verb at the breakdown, but once the drop hits, that’s what I want, personally, those big fat bassy stabs, full force.
There’s a number of ways you could achieve this, but first I might group everything that isn’t those stabs and just duck the volume via sidechain. If that seems to heavy handed, tweak out from there. But I like those sounds so much, that I think they can stand on there own, whenever present in the main groove.
Nice work, my friend!
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,shrikeParticipantI feel like it’s a night & day difference, but I don’t have the old one to refer back to.
Do you feel like it’s better? I certainly do…
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,shrikeParticipanthttps://www.bitwig.com/en/community/learning/hamilton.html
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,shrikeParticipantI stopped once to eat since that post above. This DAW is nuts, so creative. Made this, all in BW:
https://soundcloud.com/the_shrike/sh_bw_goobagabba_wip01/s-HjIyH
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,shrikeParticipantBeen playing with BW all afternoon, watching Hybris’ vids.
2 things:
-Mossgrabbers script makes Push 2 work nearly flawlessly with BW. And dozens of other ctrlrs if you happen to not have Push2. Get the scripts here:
http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html–the audio SC modulator. Ho-lee-shit. That is a game changer. Creative ways to react to any other audio source?! This essentially makes any parameter of any plugin dynamic. So many possibilities…
Maybe I need to try and do an entire tune in BW…
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,shrikeParticipant,shrikeParticipantNice music. Mix could use some polish.
(caveat: these are *my* methods, but certainly not the *only* methods)
The overall idea here is I’d love to hear more loudness & presence throughout. It’s not especially “dense”, and while you may be able to fix some of it on the master, I would personally go back and add saturation & eq to strategic points to help make some of it come alive.
I’d start with the lowest sub fundamental. Turn that guy up so that it hits 0dbfs at its peak, and make sure it is consistent against 0db. This is where compression comes in, if you need to squash it a bit to pull out some of the dynamics, then makeup gain to bring the leveled signal back up. It’s drum and bass after all, and the sub should be strong and present. It’s left to your artistic sensibilities as to how much of the dynamics you squeeze out, but for presence’s sake I think there is a lot of room to go here.
Now that you have that as your reference, mix in your kick and your snare. Mute everything else while gain staging these, there is time later to re-balance against other elements, but if the sub/kick/snare trinity doesn’t work, the tune just won’t hold. If you need to look at numbers, I generally aim for -3 on kick fundamental and -6 on snare fundamental, but honestly use your ears, as the analyzer is just a guide, and your artistic sense again comes into play here.
Now work in the rest. The third bass harmonic is important to get right, as this is your headphone/phone speaker/fullness frequency. If looking at the analyzer, I kind of aim for a ratio of 1:3:2 between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd harmonics, so that the sub is full, the next harmonic drops off sharply (to reduce competition of moving that subwoofer cone) and then back up on the third, where midrange speakers will start to pick up.
Now take a good hard listen to your top end. Compare with other tunes. Your snare could use more top end white-noise, and the hats, while smooth, are really clamped down, freq wise. Again, looking at the analyzer, try and make a level yet gentle slope from 1k+. I like to make mine slope to about -33dbfs avg, with a sharp dropoff around 15k or so, as these freqs are really useless, but do consume sonic energy.
I guess this turned into a mini mix lesson, but those are the steps I go through to get a basic sound, then tweak tweak tweak, making sure to do no harm.
Also, if you’ve not watched this video, I would strongly recommend you do so:
Saturation, using judiciously along the way, is the key to real density. To use a dumb sandwich analogy: it doesn’t matter how tall your bread is (peaks), what matters is the meat inside (RMS).
Post revisions when you have them. Keep at it!
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,shrikeParticipantA track…can be a partial or full arrangement
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